Making the World of Warcraft more trivial, one post at a time…

But the urge to prove yourself "better" than others, I struggle with. Perhaps I’m not competitive enough but, that aside, there are clear markers of being better or not. Someone in Tier 6 is clearly a better raider than me. Someone in full season 3 Arena gear is clearly better at PvP than me with my poor, honor point-bought gear. Coming up with other reasons to be "better" is just futile.

Ah, but anyway, the happy result of Andro’s story, which saw a compatriot of hers, along with my young compatriot Ularia  and a baby druid called Corse go adventuring together, was that three low-to-mid 20s cleared the Deadlines. And I (in my space pally guise) finally got to do one of the most fun things in an instance ever.

Here’s the video evidence:

Ularia Does Deadmines from Leafshine on Vimeo.

  • Ah, the lovely old hardcore-vs-casuals debate has reared its head again? Not that it ever went away, really, I guess.

    A couple of points I thought of while reading this:

    “Someone in Tier 6 is clearly a better raider than me.”

    Not necessarily. Someone in Tier 6 has access to more content than you do; that’s all it proves. You could be the best raider in the world, but be in a guild that chooses not to do 25-mans, or be stuck (thanks to loyalty) in a 25-man guild that’s still floundering in Gruul’s Lair, or what-have-you.

    “Or the rather fallacious faction-based “I’m more mature than you” idiocy that Big Bear Butt Blogger is discussing:”

    Ah, the cognitive bias, where everyone knows that the other faction is way more juvenile and immature than they are. I found Nick Yee’s results from the Daedalus Project ( interesting, although I’m not qualified to judge whether they’re meaningful. (Still, they got him a PhD, so the stats can’t be too shoddy.) The upshot, basically, was that Horde players tend to be a little younger than Alliance players, and “players who prefer the Horde tend to be more achievement-driven, more likely to enjoy provoking and challenging each other, and more likely to be min-maxers. On the other hand, players who prefer the Alliance tend to score higher on the Role-Playing and Customization motivations than those players who prefer the Horde”.

    And finally, “But the urge to prove yourself “better” than others, I struggle with. Perhaps I’m not competitive enough but, that aside, there are clear markers of being better or not.”

    I think one thing that frustrates the more ‘elite’ crowd is that given enough time, the markers of their ‘elite’ achievements start popping up all over the place. That, to them, then dilutes the value of their markers, because they got their gear “the hard way”/”before it was nerfed”/”back when it meant something”, etc etc. You can see this at play in the complaining about ‘welfare epics’ and how ‘even losers can get PvP gear’. The hardcore crowd wants markers to demonstrate that they’re better than everyone else who has the same stuff they do.

  • Er, the “upshot, basically’ part was misleading; that conclusion was far from being the objective of the research. What I meant was “Among other things, his research has showed that…” – sorry. It’s early 🙂

  • Bruce Baugh

    My impression is that Horde and Alliance demographics have changed a lot since release date, but I don’t know of any way to demonstrate it.

  • Your little pally and mine look like they used the same weapons for a time! ^^

    On to the topic of specialness…

    No, I really don’t have anything new to add. Completely agree, 100%. It’s also almost 2am. Brain no worky.

  • I commend you on your individuality and your conviction to stay with leather gear over cloth. I made my decision long ago to always pass on cloth even if it’s a PvE upgrade because that’s just not my character. Same thing goes for my paladin. I always get a good laugh out of paladins in cloth dresses. How manly of you, holy warrior.

  • We have a Holy Paladin in our guild who was wearing so much Epic leather recently that he became affectionately known as the Gimpadin…

  • “Or that I stroke anyone else’s. Even Ratshag’s.”
    The temptifyings to take this and run with it is very, very powerful. Is good thing I’s strong and can resist.

    After having streaked the Scarlet Monastery fer funs, I thinks it’s fair ta say I got no business commenting on who’s got more maturity.

    Enjoyed the “boom” video.

  • Gimpadin! I like that.

    As a pally, I’ve always been a little quietly scornful of clothadins, in particular – the downgrade from plate to mail isn’t significant unless you’re all in mail, and leather to cloth isn’t a huge drop, either. Plate to cloth, on the other hand — well, look, pallies can wear plate for a reason, you know? There are a number of encounters that seem to be designed with the expectation that you’re going to have a pally available, or at least where a paladin in plate solves a problem; putting your pally in cloth defeats the point. At that point, you may as well just roll a priest…

  • I think part of it is an obsession with getting +heal over all else, and that’s easier to get through cloth than most things.

    On the other hand, when we had some crowd control issues in Kara last night, the priest died like a victim and I (mostly) stayed up…

  • I’m a mage.


    ok, having come out, I’ll make my comments now.

    Mages have obsessions about getting +damage because if you read Elitist Jerks and do the arithmetic (it’s not maths, and I am qualified to say, as I have got a Ph.D) then you can see that +damage is the best stat to get (once you are hit capped, and ignoring spell haste).

    But the interesting thing is that +hit is not the easiest stat to get, and if you aren’t sniffy about items that drop with +stam or +spir on them instead of 5 more points of damage and are prepared to retune the rest of your kit around them a bit, you suddenly find out why these things are actually quite cool.

    In terms of gear, I think that the way forward is for Blizzard to provide five progression routes for all classes.

    1. PVP : the current problem with this is that progression occurs regardless of skill – it’s a time thing, and it needs to be changed so that the kind of non grindable walls that hit raid groups occur here to. This will prevent PVP being used as a back route by poor raiders to getting gear that overwhelms PVE balance.

    2. Arena: resistance, resilience and penetration gear should be provided that is inferior for PVE but utterly rules for Arena players.

    3. 5 Man + Heroics ++ Super hard (cf. sunwell) + Super hards Heroic. Some guilds can only sort out 5 mans, some people aren’t in guilds, there needs to be a route (and there is one) for people to get epic gear from 5 manning.. Badges are great here to

    4. 10 Man.. and 5 25 man. Kara has been great for our guild – it is proper raiding and I don’t have to mess around begging for slots in raid association 40mans if I want to stay in our guild and experiencing the raiding challenge. I think that a large demographic in WOW has been well served by Kara, but the mistake Blizzard made was making it a stepping stone to 25 mans. It really should be the case that the big raid guilds will want to stick with 25 mans and leave the 10 mans for us. Therefore it should be that the early 25 mans give a gear up opportunity (from green) with a few easy bosses. The final bosses in the first 10 man should give gear that is as good as the gear from the first bosses in the first 25 man, the second 10 man should give gear that is as good as anything in the first 25 man and so on. There should be more 10 mans than 25 mans because more people are going to do 10 mans, but the final 2 25 mans should give gear that is better (for PVE) than anything else in the game.

    This is fair because 25 mans are harder to co-ordinate and participate in than 10 mans, the people who work to do that and are prepared to sacrifice (I checked out some raid guilds rosters a few days ago… 200+ raids since TBC is not uncommon) for that should get the reward.

    The problem I have is that I can’t complete T4, I never will. I think that a 10 man mage needs somewhat different gear than a 25 man mage. The encounters should allow tanks to protect clothies in 25 mans — I know that they don’t, but they should, the 10 man experince should be much more rough and ready and should demand more flexibility in play. Kara has been bad for this – why Mages are running an instance where they have no CC and are playing glass cannons makes no sense to me! That role should be a specialism for 25 man mages, and should not really be an option for a 10 man mage!

    So – it’s all Blizzards fault !